Canon EOS 650D: multitouch screen and hybridized autofocus

Friday, June 08, 2012

Preview

Today Cannon announced its new amateur D-SLR with the Canon EOS-650D. Despite some nice new features, this new model is not a revolution in term of sensor with a 18 MPix APS-C sensor. Before we can test how good it performs, here are our first impressions in this preview.

Canon EOS 650D Preview

Comments
Added by Critical Mass |  December 13, 2012

Canon Technology Lag

I might offer the guess that some years ago some bright MBA/Engineer at Canon came to the boss and said, "You know, we can do a lot of cleanup work in processing and software that will extend the life of our cameras and lenses.  That way we can take a camera generation vacation on investing in R&D and upgraded production facilities and harvest profits until we simply have to change the formula."  Just guessing.

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Added by hoodlum |  October 10, 2012

What happened to Canon?

This is a long time in the making but how is it that the new D650 scores the exact same as the 8 year old 20D.  They both get beat by the smaller sensor E-M5.  I am surprised Canon owners are not complaining louder about this.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/813%7C0/(brand)/Canon/(appareil2)/793%7C0/(brand2)/Olympus/(appareil3)/281%7C0/(brand3)/Canon

Someone else mentioned the lack of APS-C lenses.  This has been an issue for both Canon and Nikon.  Basically they have both focused on zooms for APS-C and forced owners to rely on FF primes to cover their needs.  Unfortunately the FF focal length and aperture don't always match what you need with 1.5 crop.

m43 seems to understand the need for native lenses as they have a much better selection of primes.  It will be interesting to see how much support for new APS-C lenses will exist going forward.  APS-C is getting pushed from both mirrorless at one end and FF at the other end.  Will Canon and Nikon come out with new APS-C lenses or will we just see refreshes with better focusing for liveview.

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First replies for this comment
Added by My Self |  October 14, 2012

Re: What happened to Canon?

If you go to Camera Sensor Ratings
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Ratings
and filter by Nikon, you'll see an upward trend: newer cameras are clearly better than older cameras.

If you filter by Canon, you see a basically horizontal trend. No significant improvement (as a whole) over the years.
Don't know what's going on in Canon... maybe they lost their key engineers or are just resting on their past laurels?

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Added by AaronMC |  October 15, 2012

Re: What happened to Canon?

And us Canon owners have been making a lot of noise. The DPReview forums are filled with people complaining.

Of course they are immediately followed by self-important pricks talking about how "the camera doesn't matter" because they think that it makes them sound wise and artistic.

I, for example, after complaining on my blog for nearly two years have finally ditched all of my Canon gear. I have kept only my old 20D and the 60mm EF-S macro because they were my first SLR combo. Sentimental reasons and all.

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Added by hoodlum |  October 15, 2012

Re: What happened to Canon?

When it comes to RAW the 20D was ahead of its time.  Unfortunately, Canon RAW quality is still the same today.  Zero improvement over 8 years.

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Added by uksnapper |  October 08, 2012

D650 and siblings

Sensors are now pretty damn good,have been for a long time and unless you are shooting in outrageously bad conditions they will out perform you.
I suggest that better lenses are now far more of an issue as even the best of lenses have faults and the modestly priced  lenses are almost unusable on the cameras with better sensors.

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Added by AaronMC |  October 08, 2012

Re: D650 and siblings

I disagree.

I have a multitude of cameras, and even in mildly difficult environments, I bump up against ALL of my APS-C gear's abilities. At parties, ISO 4000-6400 is common, and even the Pentax K-5 produces images that are pretty smudgy at that level.

My photos get easier and better with every generation. I agree that some time in the future, all sensors will be good enough. That day is not today, though.

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Added by Hakeem |  October 08, 2012

Re: D650 and siblings

Quote:

<div id="linkdxomark">This a comment for <a href="http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Database/Canon/EOS-650D">this page on the website</a></div>Sensors are now pretty damn good,have been for a long time and unless you are shooting in outrageously bad conditions they will out perform you.
I suggest that better lenses are now far more of an issue as even the best of lenses have faults and the modestly priced  lenses are almost unusable on the cameras with better sensors.



Lenses are definately the top issue at this moment, Canon being quite strong at that end; but you can't simply ignore the Sensor performance. Outcome on Canon 650D is really bad. I mean things are not very clear on DXOMark website but if you look at dpreview on all ISO settings, you will see Nikon D5100 is beating  Canon D650 with huge margins. Even ISO 800 is quite noisy for my liking.

Having said that, I was not really expacting much from 650D, I had this kind of impression Canon won't make any progress on APSC sensors on quality (improvements are on the other grounds) and DXOMark score will be disappointing (fairly) as they are more focused on FF. They are projecting 650D to people who just want a smaller and lighter body to go with their existing professional gear, or someone at beginer's level, who don't go to review websites.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-650d-rebel-t4i/26

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Added by mrahmo |  October 08, 2012

does it really matter?

i have seen lots of shot from canon, Nikon and Sony, but still cannot spot the dramatic difference, so if someone have an actual link that shows the inferiority/ or excellence of these new sensors, please share

my eyes are not a measuring machine

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First replies for this comment
Added by fashaoding |  October 08, 2012

Re: does it really matter?

Quote:

<div id="linkdxomark">This a comment for <a href="http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Database/Canon/EOS-650D">this page on the website</a></div>i have seen lots of shot from canon, Nikon and Sony, but still cannot spot the dramatic difference, so if someone have an actual link that shows the inferiority/ or excellence of these new sensors, please share

my eyes are not a measuring machine
It doesn't matter if you want only jpeg.

It matters a lot if you take hdr photo in raw.

I like canon lens and sony sensors! Who can help me?

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Added by Hakeem |  October 09, 2012

Re: does it really matter?

@fashoding- Get Fuji X-E1 8) Outclass sensor and exceptional lenses!

@mrahmo: "my eyes are not a measuring machine"
Very well said, measuring image quality is real silly thing and more silly are us human who got eyes to appreciate and understand an art but still craving to read the numbers. Having said that, 650D's output is quite disappointing on all grounds, even at DPReview. Don't buy it if IQ beyong ISO 400 is any level important for you:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-650d-rebel-t4i/26

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Added by frankmv |  August 13, 2012

Arrogance??

I recently purchased the Canon T4I...and I shoot Nikon D7000 and the D300.  My observations from the field:
Pros
1) Canon menu system is more easily navigated than Nikon's. Touch is convenient.
2) Image quality is very good for this pro-sumer camera.  18mp is more than enough, imho.
3) I really like the built-in HDR and Handheld Night shot settings...very easy to get quality results (great for beginners).
4) When shooting night-time with Bulb setting, T4I has a built-in timer...VERY convenient - neither Nikon D7000 or D300 has that feature.
5) Light; articulating LCD; live-view; Full HD video...what's not to like? 

Cons:
1) 5fps (ok, maybe not a con, but both my Nikons shoot faster - 6 & 8 fps, respectively).
2) Fewer buttons than the D300 or D7000 (could be a plus depending on your perspective).
3) No secondary LCD (but I think the touch screen makes up for it, imho).

I'm sure I could come up with more pros/cons.  Overall, though, I like this camera.  I'm using it more and more and I'm very pleased with the results I'm getting.  Would it replace my Nikons? No.  But I consider the T4I a great second camera, and its ease of use makes it a great first-responder when I'm in a hurry. 


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Added by Tegularius |  June 09, 2012

Arrogance... or obsolescence

I agree with you, Aaron: Canon hasn't come up with any ground breaking consumer camera in years. Whether it's arrogance or just lack of know-how it's diffucult to ascertain.

Regardless, they are falling behind. They are still ahead the game due to their sheer presence, but they need to react and soon. Camera business is not what it used to be in the days of film photography. Now it is a fast moving game, and you have to keep up with a higly competitive market.

I'm an ex-Canon user already, and in the process of liquidating the last Canon lenses I still have.

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Added by Hakeem |  June 09, 2012

What is your complain about D650 Aaron?

This camera is pack of features, 18MP is already huge size, and high enough for resolution if your good quality prime lenses can provide.

Hybrid AF in LiveView and Movie mode, gonna be more precise compare to CAF in m43 and other systems.

IQ: no one is aware of, so you can't complain about something you never know

Tild and swival high res LCD that touchable.

Really want to know what bothors you so much :D

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First replies for this comment
Added by ronnbot |  October 09, 2012

Re: What is your complain about D650 Aaron?

"Hybrid AF in LiveView and Movie mode, gonna be more precise compare to CAF in m43 and other systems."

Not really. Current CDAF in m4/3 and other mirrorless is very accurate. The hybrid AF in the new Canons plus the new lenses with stepper motors is meant to increase AF speed in liveview and movie mode. Alas, Canon's CDAF/liveview still lags m4/3:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/08/15/Video-tests-of-the-Canon-EOS-650d-rebel-t4i-hybrid-autofocus-system

Not only that, all m4/3 lenses are CDAF optimized and most are movie friendly, i.e quiet focusing.

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Added by Hakeem |  October 09, 2012

Re: What is your complain about D650 Aaron?

ronnbot, I agree with you ..
but please check the date when i posted, it was based on hybrid AF system working in other cameras and their precision and functionality in Continuous AF modes. Later AF tests on various review sites confirms 650D implementation is not mature yet.

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Added by AaronMC |  October 15, 2012

Re: What is your complain about D650 Aaron?

Bit behind the curve, here. This is the first I have seen of this thread.

Canon annoys me because they charge lots of money for old technology. They aren't pushing anything forward. They aren't innovating. This made me actively angry because I was invested in the Canon system, making jumping systems difficult.

I waited for years, hoping that Canon would find the mojo that made them the go-to digital SLR company for the better part of the 2000's. It was all for naught. Speeds remain the same, lenses are the same, ISO performance is the same. WIth more and more of our cameras turning to solid-state technologies, this should be a era of immense innovation and change in imaging tools. Smaller, better, faster, stronger, etc.

I shoot photos at parties a lot. When I can get DOUBLE the ISO performance out of a Nikon or Sony as from a Canon, that's a big deal.

But that's beside the point. The 650D and every camera the company has released is indicative of an arrogant company who thinks that people who are already invested in the system will simply continue to buy the SAME DAMNED CAMERA, year after year, for the same high prices.

Well I'm not. As I mentioned, I got tired of waiting. I sold my Canon stuff, never to return.

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Added by AaronMC |  June 08, 2012

Arrogance Much?

It's as though the massive success of the 5D Mark II absolutely blinded Canon with arrogance. They aren't upgrading their wide-angle lenses. They aren't expanding their APS-C selection. Their cameras haven't been competitive in nearly two years.

If I hadn't already made the choice to leave the Canon system, products like this would have made it very easy.

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Further readings for the Canon EOS 650D: multitouch screen and hybridized autofocus

To provide photographers with a broader perspective about mobiles, lenses and cameras, here are links to articles, reviews, and analyses of photographic equipment produced by DxOMark, renown websites, magazines or blogs.

Camera Review  |  June 08, 2012
Canon EOS 650D

Canon’s annual update of its amateur APS-C D-SLR and successor in a long line of cameras (EOS 500D, 550D, 600D), the Canon EOS 650D brings with it a few well-thought-out new features. By contrast, there are no surprises in store about the 18Mpix APS-C sensor that it seems to have inherited from the EOS 600D. Some first impressions in our preview.